10 Leadership Lessons Triathlon Teaches Us with Kurt Madden

Join us for an inspiring conversation with triathlon coach and thought leader Kurt Madden as he shares lessons from completing 50 Ironman distance races, including the 2024 Kona World Championships. Kurt connects the grit and resilience required in endurance sports with the emotional intelligence and self-awareness vital for effective leadership. From overcoming challenges like jellyfish stings to fostering personal growth, this episode is packed with practical insights to help you lead with authenticity and thrive in any arena.  

#Triathlon #Leadership #EnduranceSports #EmotionalIntelligence #PersonalGrowth #Ironman

Chapters

• 4:30 Kona Experience and Resilience
• 16:06 Investing in Personal Growth
• 28:48 Leadership Through Preparation
• 38:20 Embracing Discomfort
• 50:07 Empowering Leaders With Smart Goals
• 1:01:42 Developing Emotional Intelligence
• 1:13:02 Leadership Transformation Through Investment

Transcript

Kurt Madden: 0:00

Everything right there when you're investing in yourself in a very good way. I think it's going to be something that people always want to think about and, as you're making expenses and you're having to pay for those things, if you can honestly look in the mirror and objectively say it's making a real positive difference in my life and those around me and I'm able to give back. I mean, to me that's just, that's heaven.

April Spilde: 0:46

Welcome to episode 16 of the Grit to Greatness Endurance Podcast, where we uncover life lessons from the world of triathlon and explore how they translate into powerful leadership skills. Leadership is often thought of as being shaped in boardrooms and offices, but the truth is some of the most profound lessons come from the challenges we face outside of work. In this episode, we'll be diving into 10 transformative leadership lessons that triathlon teaches us. Whether you're an athlete looking to sharpen your leadership abilities or a leader searching for unique insights, this episode will provide you with valuable takeaways to apply to your own journey. And to help me break down these tips is someone I truly admire for both his triathlon triumphs and his amazing leadership, and that's coach Kurt Madden.

April Spilde: 1:42

Coach K, as he is affectionately known, is an elite endurance athlete and esteemed leader in triathlon coaching. With over four decades of high performance athletic experience, kurt has a remarkable record that speaks to his commitment, resilience and mastery in the sport. His achievements include 15 first place finishes in his age group across Ironman competitions, multiple top 10 finishes at the Ironman World Championships, and he is the two-time winner of the Ultraman World Championships. Kurt's background is equally inspiring off the race course. He holds a master's degree in physical education, with an emphasis in exercise physiology from San Diego State University, and his career spans roles as a superintendent of schools, principal and CEO of his own executive development. Kurt empowers other coaches like myself, and athletes to unlock their potential and maximize performance. His deep understanding of endurance sports and his leadership acumen make him a very unique and powerful voice in today's conversation on leadership, on resilience and strategy and finding greatness throughout triathlon. So, Coach K, welcome to the Grit to Greatness Endurance Podcast.

Kurt Madden: 3:10

Oh, my goodness, I need to just pause for a second and do some breathing. That intro April was incredible, but I am really honored to be with you today and this should be a remarkable podcast.

April Spilde: 3:21

Yes, I have been a silent fan of yours before you knew me, before we met in the Mastermind group and then, just as we've gotten to know each other over the past six, seven months, you have just been a shining light in my life, and I couldn't think of a better person to have to talk specifically about this topic, because I think leadership is one of the primary but often overlooked skills within this sport and how it translates across the board, and I love hearing you talk about your different leadership lessons and the books you're reading and the different things you extract from the people that are in your sphere. I just think it's really great to share that and I love that you're here to talk with me and we can put this out into the world.

Kurt Madden: 4:08

Well, thank you again, April. I'm again for lack of a better term I'm stoked you know, for those kind of words and just to be here, and I think really today is really giving you know, our listeners, some context on this topic, because it's so vast.

Kurt Madden: 4:22

But I think I've learned there is beauty in the long game and really how the sport of triathlon really kind of parallels with leadership. So I'm going to roll up my shirt sleeves and you give me the go sign and I'm ready to give you the top 10. And are we going to split this up Like you're going to do five and I'll do five and I know we're going to talk both about it, yes, but I get a sense that we're not only going to add that it's going to be 10, but we're going to go ahead and multiply that by 10.

Kurt Madden: 4:46

So we're going to have 100. Does that sound good?

April Spilde: 4:49

Yeah, 10x, let's do it. I love that! Cool, all right. So I know that you just came off of an incredible cone of finish. I know that you have completed 50 Ironman distance triathlons. I am still in shock and in disbelief of that. It's incredible. But I wanted to talk more with you about your experience because, yes, what a picture. Yes, and just getting to be in the mastermind group and hearing from you one-on-one it's something, a story that I think it resonates so deeply with a lot of people as to what it means to really pull out grit when you're feeling awful and to have a friend along the way. So I won't get too much more away, but can you share a little bit about your Kona experience with the 2024 World Championships?

Kurt Madden: 5:40

Well, thank you so much. Yeah, I'm just really honored and humbled that. It was hard for me as I kind of did the math. It just worked out perfectly.

Kurt Madden: 5:49

I did my first one in 1980, the first Ironman For me it was. Actually, when you look at the genesis of Ironman, it was in 1978, on Oahu, in 1979, a very close friend of mine in San Diego, one that inspired me to say it over there in 1980. So that was my first and I kind of kept track and it just lined up here we are in 2024, what, 44 years later, that this was number 5-0. So it was like, oh, my goodness, in a better place. I mean, this is like, yeah, if I'm going to die today, let me die and I'm going to go to heaven right here in the lobby.

Kurt Madden: 6:21

So anyway, it was, you know, my 11th time racing in Kona. And again, for the readers, I mean for the listeners, I just want to make sure it's my 50th Ironman distance with my 11th, you know, say, in Kona, including Oahu. So I've been there many times and I raced it and I know that, I know the course, but I know with the location and the weather and the geography and nature that it always is going to throw something else out at you, but that's good, because life does that. You always have to be on your toes and always have to have a plan, but in the meantime, embrace the moment. And the special thing about this race is kind of the Ohana that has developed through the years. Kona is a very special place to race. It's a very surreal experience. You never know what's going to happen. It's kind of like I use the analogy of climbing Mount Everest.

Kurt Madden: 7:06

The weather is never consistent, it's going to change.

Kurt Madden: 7:08

So you know I got there just like I normally do this year my all-time high at six athletes racing. I have two 80-year-olds, I have someone come in on the legacy program. I had someone that had a hip injury but he was ready to go. I had someone else that had been on the podium before and also had someone that was a dad and son team team Agar, and I said, well, I'm honored. So we just kind of joined hands. You know we got into doing a little acclimation, checked in with them every day. We lined up, you know, on race week, kept it simple. Everything was falling into place, the check-in was smooth, it was effortless. It's nice that I've been there before and just trying to calm nerves and it was just so nice to get into that water. I'm swimming out and doing sink downs. I'm on that starting line. That's when you know it gets really real.

Kurt Madden: 7:56

I mean really real. It's like, oh my goodness, I have trained for an entire year, in this case two years, because last year the world championship was in nice for men. So they, we, we kind of rotated with the woman, which was fine, and so I'm at the starting line and boom, take off on the swim, which is typically my strongest area, and literally five minutes into it I got literally t-boned with a jellyfish my whole forehead went numb, my forearms went numb.

Kurt Madden: 8:24

I'm like, okay, just maintain. I wasn't sure what was going to happen. Wow, you know, as soon as I got out of the swim they were spraying people down with vinegar. And it's different than if you get stung with a jellyfish at the beach, because typically you're not going to go out and bike 112 miles and then, for an encore, let's go run the marathon. So little different scenarios like no vinegar. I've got to get through t1. That's was on my mind. So it that that experience right there really taught me about grit and taught me about resiliency, and I didn't know what was going on with other people. I had to take care of me. So the bike went relatively smooth and um, but again, every time I had water on my forehead or my arms it was like a like a hot iron and it just was, was just I could tell I was just off, especially as I started that run.

Kurt Madden: 9:08

I've been to Kona before to know that you are going to have some rough patches and probably felt my best about six or seven miles into it. But for the rest of that run it was just a struggle, just with my head, my body, just keeping the momentum. But I was fortunate One of my athletes ran up beside me at mile 16. So we ran the last 10 miles together, which was epic and just beautiful, and he was just so, so, so amazed. So within my group of six I had four that finished. I did have two DNFs.

Kurt Madden: 9:39

One of my 80-year-olds didn't quite make the cutoff, Tim Ager got to 91 miles on the bike. But you know that's not a loss, I think, because they did the prep work, they started the race and it keeps you hungry to say, okay, within 72 hours you've got to get your growth mindset back on. I pour a little grit and resiliency into that and we're going to step up and move forward because, as you know, the that Chinese proverb that you can get knocked down five times, but you need to stand up six times.

Kurt Madden: 10:06

So, it just was wonderful and I learned after the race the implications of those jellyfish, how it impacted so many people. In a way, I'm glad it happened, because now I have this experience. How can I use that in a leadership position or a coaching position? I'm not sure yet, but at least I've been there. So when we talk about empathy, we talk about this important aspect. It's like, no, I have been there before, but again, that's what it's all about. As a leader, it's not only you know, talk about your successes, but missed opportunities and failures.

Kurt Madden: 10:38

So I think it was neat and just that vibe of just that last 50 yards going across that finish line. It's just so special.

April Spilde: 10:46

Wow, there's so much that you said that we could spend a whole podcast unpacking just one of those topics. I just, I am truly amazed that you were able to not only get out of the water and stand up and not have to be hauled out on a stretcher, but that you continued is just mind blowing. And I've burned myself with an iron, being a ceremonial guardsman in the Air Force, like we iron our clothes all the time, and I know I've not had it to the face, but I can imagine that that was incredibly painful. I just think about how nauseous I probably would have felt in that, and I'm just impressed that you you kept your head down.

April Spilde: 11:27

You leaned into that grit mentality. I feel, okay, I'm going to get through this, I'm gonna keep moving forward. I might not do everything that I thought I was going to do in the paces that I was looking for, but I'm I'm showing strength in a huge way. To me, those are the stories that really stand out. Those are the things that, uh, when I think about Ironman, what that represents, that right there is, is really resilience and strength and um, pulling, pulling it all out to to keep moving forward. And I think I'm sure that your athletes and the people that know you are just incredibly blown away by your tenacity, wow.

Kurt Madden: 12:12

Yeah, it's yeah, I was amazed too, but I've learned yeah but I've learned to. I'm already, you know, excited about getting back there in two years. I know I'll be next year, but in two years. But I'm already looking at the. Someone reached out to me that I've seen on LinkedIn and we've been corresponding about the 50th anniversary of the.

Kurt Madden: 12:30

Ironman. So that's in 2020. It's hard for me to believe. Just a light went off in my head again. I'm like that's only four years away. How epic would it be if I could be there and get across that finish line.

April Spilde: 12:41

Yeah, the fact that you have the bravery to get back in the water after being stung, I think I commend you for that too. I would be I mean honestly thinking I'd be scared, but then again, you never know, right. If you have let fear hold you back from something that is incredible, like having another chance at the 50th anniversary, I mean that to me is significant.

Kurt Madden: 13:07

And you know, April is kind of like that new movie, I guess that's coming out Gladiator 2. Yes, You've got to get down, You've got to smell that dirt, You've got to eat that dirt. You've got to make sure that you're going to you know, again, that's grit, you're just going to be on there and dance for her, and when that is all said and done and the sun sets, you're going to be a better person that day. So, hey, I want no regrets in life.

April Spilde: 13:28

Yeah, I love that. The man in the arena that's exactly what that is.

Kurt Madden: 13:31

Yeah, and a really close friend of mine told me. He says you know?

April Spilde: 13:50

when you're in a hearse, you can't have a U-Haul behind you. Truth my mom says that. Actually, my mom, she's a huge guiding light in my life and she will say things like that and I'm like, yes, that's so true. I think you've obviously identified some amazing keys and tips that we're looking for, but I want to give you the opportunity, Coach K, to lead us out with your first tip.

Kurt Madden: 14:15

Yeah, and again for our listeners. I just want to make sure that we frame this appropriately, that we're going to stay with the overarching theme that these are leadership lessons.

Kurt Madden: 14:27

Triathlon teaches us and that means you don't feel when you hear that we're triathlon has to be a full distance of a 2.4 miles, 112 mile, you know, bicycle ride and a marathon. It could literally be a sprint, it could be anything, but it's really going to test you. So I want people to know that and, like you know, as we kicked off, I think there's so many parallels as I look back on my life, my professional life and triathlons. It's just. It's just like I'm crosswalking all the time. So the first thing I want to kick off with today that I have seen is is really the, the mindset and the importance of first, you know, leadership tip is really invest in yourself.

Kurt Madden: 15:06

And it's amazing. Through the years I've I've heard people and I hear it too something to the effect this is a very expensive sport and I acknowledge I said, yes, it is. And you know what you're the most important resource is you, so invest the most in you. Because it's we talk about that scenario on an airplane flight that the mother should, or the father should, put the oxygen mask on first, and invest in themselves before they try to take care of their loved ones around them.

Kurt Madden: 15:35

And I think, when I look at 40 years, is that when you have that mindset that you're going to invest in yourself in any way, shape or form, that you, that the huge ROI, is going to be incredible. You are going to multiply, meaning your professional growth community, your mindset that you want to grow and learn and scale your belief system around you the people that you're associating with.

Kurt Madden: 15:59

I think that really, when I look at the sport, it has taught me that you know what an incredible community. You've got three different disciplines, so it's just not you're an expert in one area. You've got to swim, bike and run. You throw in the nutrition. You know the strength training on top of that. That's huge. The other thing, too, is that when you can really get to different parts of the world, you're not in this tunnel, that you're just kind of in your neighborhood. That when you have diverse situations in various places, it teaches you how to adapt and you are investing in yourself. I think travel is a great thing to do. Also, I know that. Just the ability as a leader and in our sport.

Kurt Madden: 16:37

You've talked about it you've got to pivot and you've got to adapt. And I think, as we've gone through COVID and I see some new crops coming up, that's really the people that really came out of that in pretty good shape. That's one thing they do in our sport. Anything can happen on any given moment. Just when you think you have it.

Kurt Madden: 16:56

things will change and I think in a way, call it really as Bob Babbitt and I talk about it, one of the guys that's very popular in our sport and well-known and I've known Bob since 1980, that our sport is really the fountain of youth. Oh yeah, good to keep you lively.

Kurt Madden: 17:21

It's going to keep you in a situation where you know, you think about engagement, you think about, you know, self-worth and you think about the things that you know that you want to do, it gives you a much, much, much higher level of hope. And I think when you have hope, engagement, self-worth, those are for me kind of the big three, as I have learned in this sport. That has taught me that I have hope, that I can continue, I have self-worth, that I am just staying within myself with my legs underneath me and again I want to make sure that I continue to go on and I'm definitely engaged.

Kurt Madden: 17:54

I could be in that. You know, in the zone and I think in life leadership. When you think about that, it's almost identical.

April Spilde: 18:01

As a leader.

Kurt Madden: 18:02

You've got to have hope, you've got to have engagement. You've got to have engagement, you've got to have self-worth, and I think that's important. I think the other thing too, I find, is that when you're promoting fitness, when you're promoting longevity and your well-being, I think, it's really really good and also really modeling that as a leader.

Kurt Madden: 18:20

It's really what I talk about. It's like the tone at the top top that you've got to be that lead learner that you know what. Yeah, people might not be surprised what I'm going to say. There's no finish line with leadership. It's evolving all the time and really what got us here today isn't going to get us there. We've talked about that in our mastermind session, so by investing in yourself.

Kurt Madden: 18:47

To me, that is a great thing to do because, at the end of the day, you're going to be able to make so many connections and work with so many people around you, and I think, when you talk about success, when you talk about life, everything right there when you're investing in yourself in a very good way.

Kurt Madden: 18:56

I think it's going to be something that people always want to think about and, as you're making expenses and you're having to pay for those things, if you can honestly look in the mirror, the mirror and objectively say it's making a real positive difference in my life and those around me and I'm able to give back. I mean, to me that's just, that's heaven.

April Spilde: 19:14

Ooh yeah, I felt that. I literally felt like you were pouring into me right now. That was amazing. When I think about, yes, the investment and I have heard that, I have heard that, that that I'm not going to say an excuse but the, the fear, I think a fear is really what it is of I don't, I don't want to invest in this because it seems scary. It's new, it's expensive, it what if it leads to a dead end?

April Spilde: 19:39

And I do think that if you, the way you reframed it is beautiful and I think if people understand, like, even if you suck at first which you are going to, it's unfamiliar territory, just like anything that requires you stretching outside of your comfort zone, you're, there's going to be opportunities to learn and continue.

April Spilde: 19:59

But growth comes outside of that. And I look at it in the way of my own story and how I was one of those folks during COVID that decided to start training for my first triathlon because I wanted something to take me outside of my comfort zone and give me a challenge, and it did. It opened up an incredible whole new world of adventure and people and just leadership. I mean I talk about leader, triathlon training and what I've learned many times in my workplace and apply it to the skills that I want to use to lead the folks that I'm privileged to serve. And yeah, it's just such a you hit it on the head. It is an investment in yourself. So, looking at it from the aspect of what can you gain, what can you grow with with these new skills and these new possibilities, it's endless. There is no finish line.

April Spilde: 20:58

Yeah, and again when you think about it.

Kurt Madden: 21:02

Some of our listeners might interpret that as you're being a little selfish. You're investing in yourself.

Kurt Madden: 21:07

However, you've got to shift that paradigm a little bit this is why, if you do it again and your intentions are good and you're intending to be successful, you invest in you to help those around you. So it's almost like tentacles that tend to branch out. It's like we talk about the best time to plant the tree was 20 years ago. Life isn't sometimes like that, but you know what? I got an opportunity. The best time is the moment the tree is going into the ground, right now, and as you start to invest in yourself, those roots start to go out, and I know that with my sons.

Kurt Madden: 21:38

I think I shared with you many years ago when they were younger. They would tease me because they were young and they were going through adolescence. They say Dad, why do you always read those self-help books, are you okay? And then I fast forward 20 years from that point and even I had a conversation with my son. Today he's 39. He goes Dad, have you heard Schwarzenegger's new book? I said tell me more, son.

April Spilde: 21:58

And he goes.

Kurt Madden: 21:58

Oh no, this guy is really humble. He's telling me this and he's just going, he's going on and on. I'm thinking it's that boomerang, you throw it out there and it might not come back in 10 minutes but 30 years later it's coming back around. So if you make that investment, I can feel good and kind of at peace with myself is to say that that impact, that it just resonated out.

Kurt Madden: 22:19

And I think the biggest compliment you get in a leadership position, wherever you are, is that you're not developing followers, you're developing leaders, and that's another shift right there. It's great when people follow, but when you see those people stepping up and they're leaders, it's just, you know, your heart is full. Your heart is full. It's like that's the best. That is the best right there.

April Spilde: 22:41

So yeah, that real, true ripple effect.

April Spilde: 22:44

Yeah, yeah when you see the folks that you are directly pouring into, literally taking that and running with it. I agree it's the best feeling. Oh yeah, well, hey, I'm going to go back to you because I think we got a few more to go. I know, I know we could stay on this all day, so I want to share, I believe, that adaptability we've brought it up a couple times already. I think that is absolutely key to not only the sport of triathlon, but as we apply it in a leadership aspect the ability to pivot, the ability to recognize when there needs to be a pivot and getting out of our own way by staying stuck in a fixed mindset. I think being able to grow and move forward without it holding us captive is an incredible leadership skill, something that I've seen both in my triathlon journey as well as in my military career. So I feel like they both kind of fed into each other, because adaptability is, um one of the key concepts of of military uh mindset and being able to pivot and shift on the battlefield or in in um an adversarial relationship. So they it's nice to have this ability to apply it to triathlon, but also have triathlon come back and help me in my own military career too.

April Spilde: 24:10

So in triathlon there's all kinds of things there's unexpected weather, there's mechanical issues on the bike, there's a jellyfish that stings you in the face Um, so the ability to even just take the step back to just like reassess, orient yourself, figure out, okay, this hurts, this doesn't feel good. I might not know how to lead through this right now, but let me think about at least one thing I can do to keep moving forward, and I think the ability to have that recognition of hey, I need a moment, okay, now let's go. I think that is a huge leadership skill that can keep you out of being stuck where others might stay and allow you to push forward, um, role model, what that means, whether it's with your children or with the uh, the folks that you lead, or it's, um, it's as a triathlete coach. It's, it's an incredible skill to have.

Kurt Madden: 25:16

I would, I would totally agree, and I think it's. Sometimes we talk about a job description and a job brief.

April Spilde: 25:22

Hmm.

Kurt Madden: 25:25

And I look at adaptability. The beauty of a job brief is it gives you a chance to be very adaptable With a job description. You can't quite adapt as much because you're kind of….

April Spilde: 25:38

Pinhold yeah.

Kurt Madden: 25:39

You kind of have binders on. And I think in this day and age, like you said, those cheerleaders, they can adapt. That's the people that can pivot smoothly, quickly and do it with integrity. As a leader, you're solid.

April Spilde: 25:54

Yeah, and I think I love that you brought up earlier about the optimism and hope. I mean, those are the things that really do fuel resilience and if you are able to tap into an adaptable spirit, you're going to be able to access hope much more easily by not getting in that frame of mind that says, oh, this sucks and we're never going to get through this. I mean, I can't tell you how hard it is to be around someone who is always negative, who is always pulling down the worst things and focusing on that and not seeing the light at the end or the I don't even want to say the silver lining, because I don't think putting a positive shine on something is necessarily always the best action. But I do think that being able to pull a pull down hope and find a way through by just taking one step, I think that is truly a characteristic of a powerful leader that can bring us through a hard time.

Kurt Madden: 26:57

I totally agree.

April Spilde: 27:00

Well, Coach K, do you want to bring us our third tip?

Kurt Madden: 27:02

All right, we're already on number three.

April Spilde: 27:04

Yeah, we kind of rose through that because I think we have hit on it quite a bit here.

Kurt Madden: 27:08

No, it's good, I think, as I go on to this next one, it's really we're going to frame it as know your why, and it's kind of we've talked about, you know April, that you know Simon Sinek, someone that I look up to, and just really I just have enjoyed everything that he does produce and has produced, but you, know, start with why.

Kurt Madden: 27:29

And I think as a leader, it's really important to take some time to reflect and really take some time in a very quiet place to really start to think through, to say what is my why. I mean, what is my kind of my underlying foundation to really my core values, my beliefs and my behaviors? And I was actually just on a call with one of my athletes. I posed that question. It was kind of cute. She's like coach, you've never asked that before and I go. I know so I'm always full of surprises, but I wanted to know that and it was amazing because when you really know your why and it is aligned to your core values and your beliefs and your behaviors and our leadership position, if you can articulate that, especially as you're coming in a new position, if you regularly just share your why, it's reassuring your team, your troops, your direct reports, that we're on the same page and I think it's important to do, rather than just kind of wait until something maybe bad happens or something good happens.

Kurt Madden: 28:33

Just build that in. So it's a very regimented protocol, but I know for me and I shared this during our last mastermind session maybe a combination of my genetics and my upbringing- that as I reflect and people who give me feedback, and it's been good.

Kurt Madden: 28:48

I think I'm trying to be very objective and stay neutral. But it's really as I've kind of defined it. It's really pushing personal limits and some people might say, well, I don't want to push personal limits. Well, this is what I've learned as a leader At times you need to push your limits. At the same time, you kind of couple it with achieving excellence. It's not like I'm going to do it at any cost. It's not like a. You know, if we use the Tom Cruise analogy, that we're at Mach 9.5, tom, everything is shaking. We don't need to go to town.

Kurt Madden: 29:22

Let's hold back a little bit right there, but doing that with excellence, not with perfectionist kind of that perfectionist mindset, but doing it with excellence. I think that's good, Because what it has done, it's amazing. If I add all that up, it goes back to what you talked about. It's provided me with strength, it's provided me with resilience.

Kurt Madden: 29:37

And if you live your why every single day, your life has been complete, it's been fulfilled. So I think, as a leader, I think in doing that, you're going to build a very good foundation and it's not something that you would put, say, on a card where you post it on your wall on your office or in your bathroom, but it's really more about your actions. The people can pick up on your why.

Kurt Madden: 29:57

And it's amazing, it's amazing when people say that they're like I'm feeling your good energy, Wow, that's cool. When people say that to you with humility, you take that in, you splash it on.

Kurt Madden: 30:08

It's like wow, that's, it's coming across because you're authentic and you're real and when you do that, I think, as you're trying to enhance culture, I'm really fascinated with culture and in my professional development, leadership I think when you look at culture, you will make it break it. On culture, I know, I know that you know Tony Hsieh, the previous CEO of Zappos. I mean, wow, we've lost him, but he did so much great work on culture. So I think, knowing your why as a leader, if you don't know it, now hit the brake, stop, go for a walk, sit down, take some deep breaths in and start to really think that. Because if your foundation is good as the leader, when the wind starts you're getting headwind. You have a perfect storm lined up. As a leader, you are positioned to say no, I am both that. I am locked down and we're in it my helmet is on tight.

Kurt Madden: 31:03

I've got five parachutes on the back. I've got hand grenades. I'm eating dirt Bring it.

April Spilde: 31:13

You know I'll get it all. Yeah, that is good is good, good, good, good. I. I love that you brought up simon cynic.

April Spilde: 31:15

Um, I think the the golden circle, which again speaks to everybody here's how to do it, here's how to do it. Here's, here's, um, what you need a, b, c, but in order to really and he spoke it out in a way of like selling, but it is selling yourself to a little bit here, as far as if you know what your why is you can, you can get to a how, you can always get to the how, but, um, if you're not rock solid on why, why are you doing this? Why are you investing in this? Why are you wanting to bring people with you? Then it's, it rings hollow and it is inauthentic and it's hard to get behind something when, uh, those tumultuous storms happen, when you feel like your foundation is shaken.

April Spilde: 32:06

Um, I think that is such a good point that if you have a strong why, you can overcome anyhow. And, um, that applies across the board. That applies in the worst times when, um and we're not just talking about triathlon, we're talking about the worst that can happen in a lifetime death, um, sickness, um, injury, things like that, that losing a friend, like those are the things where, if you have that strong foundation, you become unshakable. And I think that that really comes down to knowing yourself and knowing what motivates you, what keeps you waking up and hungry and moving forward.

Kurt Madden: 32:48

Yeah, and again, I know, on this tip, I talked a lot about leadership, but again, I think if we go back to triathlons on a scale, the more you invest in yourself and the more you participate in this sport, it's going to teach you about your why. And I think for me, as I reflect, I'm not the most talented athlete, I won't have the highest VO2. But I think, again when I go to my why, that I know that I can push my personal limits and I'm going to do it with excellence.

Kurt Madden: 33:17

And a framework of good sportsmanship because I'm over the top on things that I've done. It's not about I need to be number one, but it's like I still need to be a role model and I need to be a good ambassador for the sport and I think, as we do that. I found that people that continue to do that. It's very evident when you follow their journey that their why really starts to come out, and I think that's good.

April Spilde: 33:42

Good, good, good stuff, all right.

Kurt Madden: 33:43

I'm tossing it back to you, girl. All right, let's do this. Yes, we are.

April Spilde: 33:48

And I think that you you know when you brought up excellence. This kind of goes right in line with my next my next leadership tip and that is preparation.

April Spilde: 33:57

And if you really do want to succeed in not only triathlon but in life as a leader, you have to prepare. And I again go back to my military experience when I think about preparing for deployment, when I think about preparing after being promoted. That can be a scary growth zone. Um, a lot of of work upfront saves you from frustration on the backend. And triathlon especially, the leadership skill that comes out of preparation for that.

April Spilde: 34:31

When you talk about prepping your bike, prepping your swim, learning good swim form technique, learning how to prep your nutrition, what works and what doesn't work like all those skills how to have a successful morning routine, how to prep yourself for a good night's sleep, like all those great habits that you build over. Consistency and reshaping and going back to the drawing board and being curious, I think can really set you up for good habits throughout the rest of your life that pay off in those dividends like we talked about. So I think preparation and understanding how to not only know how to schedule but also knowing how to set up your day so that you're continuously hitting the mark over and over is huge and I think that that's a great leadership skill.

Kurt Madden: 35:28

Yeah, and I'm going to respond to that, april and I think that is really key and I think that that's a great leadership skill. Yeah, I'm going to respond to that, april. I think that is really key and I think sometimes in this day and age, when all of us want things very quickly, it's like we want immediate success. We want to drink success. We want to pour it on our bodies. We want to get the success app.

Kurt Madden: 35:44

Yes yes, you know, sometimes it's not that way and we go into our sport of triathlons too. Is that, yes, yes, good things? It's all worth it.

Kurt Madden: 36:06

All those early morning sessions, those sacrifices you made. I think in life too, in leadership, so much of it is prep work because many times all we see is the final product or the act. We don't see all those reps and you can take it leaders in any industry, if it's musicians, chefs, surgeons, military we don't often see all the reps, all the preparation they've had to make those important decisions and when they're in that leadership position. I think that is so key.

April Spilde: 36:36

Yeah, that's such a good point. I've seen that a couple of times recently where people comment about I want to be them or I want their life, or it seems like they have it so good, but you don't actually know what it took for them to get to that point. All you're seeing is the result. And I think about my military career especially. I joined the Air Force in 2008. I'm coming up on 17 years in April and, yes, and people look at highlights and achievements and, yeah, it feels amazing, but I tell you what there's been some real lows in that highlight reel, if you will, of getting to this point. And hindsight is 20-20, obviously, but it's like looking back on that.

April Spilde: 37:24

There was a lot of failure and I know we're talking about preparation, but I think it is important when you think about the result. It's a story. It's walking the walk instead of just saying, oh, this is who I am or this is what I've done. It's actually living day in, day out and failing forward. That, I think, really is that hallmark of leadership and picking up the lessons as you go and continuing just to be open-minded to learning, like you said that lifelong learner. So I know I'm kind of jumping around here, but I do feel like there's so much that you said about understanding the journey, aside from the result, that really speaks to someone's character and their ability to lead through challenges. Absolutely, we could write a book, Coach K. We need to mastermind this. This is awesome. This is 10x.

Kurt Madden: 38:27

I'm telling you, I've got ideas, don't worry.

April Spilde: 38:29

Yes, I love it. All right, we're moving on here, all right.

Kurt Madden: 38:35

Tip number five Tip number five Again, I'm just trying to pick my faves. You know it made me stretch those synapses a little bit, but they're still firing. So you know, as I look at life and I look at the sport, I try to frame it in such a way that it is work but it's play. So my next leadership tip is play all in and I really got that from Liz Weisman and Liz is a person that I've worked with and she's written multipliers and impact players and you know rookie smarts and this is what I really admire and just trying to really be thoughtful of what she's trying to promote there. And really, when it's easy to really be thoughtful of what she's trying to promote there, and really it's easy to say I'm playing all in.

Kurt Madden: 39:16

However, let's talk about the very next step. When you say you're all in, you're all in and, as a leader, when you sign that dotted line or you take the oath that I'm playing all in, you need to really your actions really are going to be the things that people are going to look at. So I think we need to look at that. I know, when I look at the sport of triathlons, when you sign up for any race, when you take that mindset, no matter what your goals are. Just maybe you want to finish in a nice way, play all in.

Kurt Madden: 39:42

And I think when you play all in. That means that when you're swimming, biking, running, strength training yoga, anything you're doing to prepare. So I'm going to piggyback off of what you said. Yeah, that you're playing all in. That means that you're going to enjoy the moment. You stay in the moment. You know what's good for you. You're going to fight all those villains in your head.

April Spilde: 40:04

Yes, because they're going to try to undermine your efforts.

Kurt Madden: 40:07

You're going to play with the superheroes. So, yes, they're going to try to undermine your efforts, you're going to play with the superheroes. So when you're playing, all in, I think it's that commitment. You know, like you said, you kind of have those peaks and valleys, but in doing that, you know that it's going to be an incredible ride, that you're going to get across that finish line and I think again and doing that people really understand.

Kurt Madden: 40:24

We talk about that, that people they can say I'm all in. And then all of a sudden again we talked about the wind is going to change directions and then they're like I don't know if I'm all in anymore. Oh, no, no, no, no no no, that train has left the station that's right, just like just like we go back to the jellyfish encounter that was just two weeks ago for me. I was like no, I'm playing, all in.

Kurt Madden: 40:45

I mean they're gonna have to literally drag me out of this water. And same thing on the bike. It's like I don't want to crash, but I've got to do that same thing on the run. So I think again, as we know, that, as you look at triathlons, some people say why would you do that? It just doesn't make sense. Well, I think when you really start to understand it and benefits. That's why people get so emotional when you look at some events.

Kurt Madden: 41:08

I mean it's like this universal thing that happens. It's like why don't they kind of cry at the finish, I mean at the start. But I think it's more anxiety when you see those big eyes that are dilated. Their body is pumping with adrenaline. You can see the fear in their face. It's like the deer in the headlight. You're trying to calm them but, more importantly, when you look at that finish, 80 or 90% of the time you sat there with just a camera.

Kurt Madden: 41:33

And I think in the productions they show that very well that it's usually about joy, it's about happiness, it's like wow, I pushed my personal limits, I did it with excellence, it wasn't all that bad. So I just want our people on this podcast to know that playing all in think about that. But really, if you work again with people around you, maybe even pose that question occasionally, especially when things are going well and that's sometimes when things are going rough, to tee it up beautifully to say let's ask the open ended question we started on this journey together. Are we still playing all that?

Kurt Madden: 42:09

Because I've learned this when you're winning, many times you have to act as if you are losing, and when you're losing, you have to act as if you're winning. And if you're still playing all that, go back to what you've talked about. You're going to have to adapt All your preparation.

Kurt Madden: 42:27

It's just your return on your investment just goes back again and again. So hold on to that, because work should be play. When your work is play, it's like, oh my gosh, I actually get paid to do this and it's the culture and everything you do. So I tell people I still haven't grown up. I was a very active kid. I grew up in our city and here I am an adult and I'm still swimming, biking and running and it's incredible that when you think about a triathlon, it's kind of like being a kid, like we're just and then we're going to get in our bikes and maybe as little three-year-olds, we had our little bikes and then we're going to run around the tree three times.

Kurt Madden: 43:01

Well, guess what, you know? It's amazing. Our teeth have just changed, that's all. We're just like kids and we're doing the exact same.

April Spilde: 43:14

Oh, I got goosebumps from that. I mean, there was a couple of times that I literally like, oh my gosh she's saying it in such a powerful way what this transformative, uh, what this can do to transform your life. And I think I thought about the core value of courage when you were talking about being all in and taking the first step and saying you know, I'm truly committing to this. I'm truly saying, when I put my name on the dotted line, this is, this is something I'm putting my whole heart into and I'm not going to give up. And I think I I feel like this energy right now is amazing. Um, coach k, I just gotta acknowledge that.

April Spilde: 43:57

Um yeah just yeah, the. The power that comes from saying I'm going to do this come hell or high water, um is so. It's just palpable. So, I love that you brought that here. Thank you.

Kurt Madden: 44:12

Well, and think about it too. I know, O'Connor, there was a double amputee, Billy.

April Spilde: 44:17

Munger.

Kurt Madden: 44:18

Yep, and that kid had the heart of a lion. Two lions, maybe five lions, yeah pride you know what? He swam 2.4 miles. He bicycled 112. And if you could have seen him in that marathon with two blades on and to experience that finish of Billy Finchane talk about playing all in. He didn't have to say a word, his actions alone. He not only climbed mountains, he moved mountains, he did by his actions and he prepared, he, he adapted, he knew his why and he invested in himself and I think that was just.

Kurt Madden: 44:56

It was a class act. Don't get me wrong the one of patrick langer. He was very impressive, but if I looked at billy finishing yeah patrick, you know what Awesome? Hey, I'm throwing it back to you because I'm going on right now.

April Spilde: 45:13

I don't know how we're going to keep. I am just like in awe right now. I'm legit. It's hard to even talk right now.

April Spilde: 45:30

So, yeah, this kind of actually kind of set up for the perfect tip here, which is embracing discomfort, yeah, the courage to step forward and commit to being all in and then understanding that this is going to come with pain. There's going to be palpable pain moments that are going to probably bring you to your knees a few times. I know, just with my. I know I liken this back to myself, but it's kind of like okay, where can I speak from true authenticity, um, here? But I feel like there's been some moments where I have fallen on my face and understood, like, okay, that's part of the process, brush yourself off, get back up, um, and let's keep moving forward and embrace it.

April Spilde: 46:06

And I'm not saying that you are so ironclad that you run through injury or you're digging a grave, if you will. There's a difference between being injured and being uncomfortable. So I would definitely say understanding that, hey, there's going to be some discomfort here, there's going to be some things that are going to hurt, but not shying away from the discomfort, not shying away from the opportunity to grow and get stronger through it. And I think that's where, like my pain tolerance, if you will has gotten so much higher, because I understand that this is not going to kill me, this is not going to injure me, this is, this is literally me testing my limits and what I thought was the absolute barrier, and here I am pushing past it, here I am moving forward, here I am role modeling how to be able to be okay with being uncomfortable and then showcasing that to others to inspire them to continue moving forward even when they don't feel like it.

Kurt Madden: 47:12

Yeah, I totally agree, and I think too is that the key word here is embrace, and that's one thing I try to as I coach and even myself. I've learned in life probably older now as compared to when I was younger if you don't fight those moments of discomfort and just literally be mindful and embrace it, your whole body, posture and language just starts to shift. It's kind of like doing yoga, that you're stretching yourself way beyond.

April Spilde: 47:41

Mental yoga yeah.

Kurt Madden: 47:44

And you're just like no, I've got to embrace this. And that's like whoa, I have two more inches. It's kind of like I think we do this in one of our masterminds. We held our hands up, did we maybe do that? And I said give me two more inches. It was funny how everyone got two more inches and then, can you give me another one, Can you give me another one? And they're like oh, that you, you've got to, you've got to be resilient.

April Spilde: 48:05

You've got to be able to do that.

Kurt Madden: 48:06

So that's key. The rubber band man.

April Spilde: 48:18

Boom. All right, what do you got for me, coach K, we're rolling through this.

Kurt Madden: 48:24

We're like sparring. I tell you, we're so mono here, all right. We're like sparring. I tell you, we're so mono-y, mono here, all right. We're already on number seven.

Kurt Madden: 48:31

And our journey continues because, again, as we look at our sports, what I'm going to say on this one is be an impact player. And as I look at lessons learned with all my years of being out there with you know various triathlons throughout the world and distances that triathlons have really taught me to be an impact player. So I want to, for our listeners, I want to define what that really means is that when you think of your contributor contributors are good and I think everyone they can reflect to say, not to judge, but just make observations it's more on your practices. So when you look at someone as a contributor, you look at our sport of triathlons they're contributing, they have paid their entry fee and they're there to swim, bike and run and that's what they do. They have contributed and at the end of the day, that's good.

Kurt Madden: 49:19

However, when I look at the impact players, it's a little bit different, because those are the ones that can really look at this to say that they want to be the best they can be. They're going to push their limits, they're going to go out there and take all the gifts they have in the moment and they're going to make an impact and they're going to be a little bit bold and they're going to take action, meaning that maybe, as someone is injured on the side, the impact player will stop and take care of that person. The impact player will be there to inspire others, to keep the good vibe, to keep the ohana, to really support people and keep the camaraderie going, and they make work so, so enjoyable because you know, when you look at that, people like that that are impact players in a leadership position or even in our sport. One thing they do very, very well is they know how to step up and they know how to step back.

Kurt Madden: 50:13

And I think that's for lack of a better term. It's class. They just have this sixth sense. They know when to step up and they know when to step back. Good coaches will do that. Good leaders will do that. You'll step up and step back. You don't need to be a helicopter hovering around this person and be that rapid responder. What goes along with that, though, is they make work lights because they have this presence, but it's not like they're micromanaging someone because they're so gosh darn insecure that you need to hover all the time.

Kurt Madden: 50:46

It's like you make work light. It's like you're there. You're there if need be, but you should empower your people and that's how you're going to grow people around you. So I think making work light is another really, really strong characteristic. As you look at that, also know that many times you need to ask and then adjust. A good leader will do that. They will jump into the fire, they will ask and adjust, but at the end of the day they've got to step back a little bit and make adjustments, like I think I've got really good people. I don't need to push them aside because of my position and use your power, your positional power.

April Spilde: 51:21

It's like no.

Kurt Madden: 51:21

I've given them autonomy. I've developed their skill sets. They need to figure it out on their own.

April Spilde: 51:27

So asking and adjusting.

Kurt Madden: 51:28

And I look at good leaders and that's what they do very well. They'll ask them questions, then they make adjustments. And amount of questions, then they make adjustments, and I think that is really, really key.

Kurt Madden: 51:36

The other thing I like the most, and again it's really about how to finish strong. You know when you're really an impact player. You are finishing strong in all your endeavors, so you're not going to come up short. You schedule the finish, you get it across. A contributor maybe not so much, Not because they're a bad person, but you need to look at their practices. So at the end of the day, when you look at it, those impact players, they're going to multiply. We talked about habits. They're going to have those atomic habits.

Kurt Madden: 52:02

If you're kind of in a manager role, you want to play it a little bit safe, you don't want to kind of put your neck out there a little bit, then probably you're going to be more of a contributor with your practices. So I want to encourage people to be impact players and I think it doesn't matter, you don't need to be the CEO. That's the thing I want to make perfectly clear as you do the research on impact players. They could be someone that is a nurse in a hospital. They could be someone that is prepping surgeons for surgeries, but all of a sudden the surgeons are not just people that are prepping, because they're so gosh darn good yeah they're gonna make that surgeon look really good, or it could be someone maybe you know liz weisman talks about.

Kurt Madden: 52:43

If someone had a hockey game that is looking at a hockey player banging on the glass, saying you've got something on your neck and I think it's a cancerous growth and I'm not gonna back down.

Kurt Madden: 52:52

The hockey players like who's that lady behind me? You know I'm a professional hockey player. I don't can you have her go away Six months later. Guess what? Because of her being an impact player, saved the life of that young man because it was cancerous. And I think no matter where you are on the spectrum, size, shape, background, ethnicity you name it.

April Spilde: 53:13

And what it is.

Kurt Madden: 53:14

It's not going to be an impact player, but you name it and what it means I can be an impact player, but again you've got to step up and acknowledge that. So that's what I've seen and do the right thing, and I think that's something else that goes with being an impact player, and I know in sport of triathlons that's what I really admire. It's made me, I think, a person that can be an impact player and also know too, that many times I've got to be careful because we do have blind spots and you can be a little bit, maybe not not a multiplier, but more of a diminisher.

April Spilde: 53:40

So recognizing again, it goes back to um something I'm going to talk about real soon yeah, I think there was a lot that um again, that encompasses what, uh, an impact player is, but one thing I want to highlight is the ability to ask good questions and keep it open-ended. Like you said, I think that a great leader is someone who doesn't come in and just swipe and say I'm going to take care of it, I'm the savior of this organization and it's all on me to make these decisions. I think a true leader and empower of their people is the ability to give them the opportunity to step up and problem solve through together, by keeping an open mind and asking great questions and keeping neutral to no judgment. Like what do you see here? Maybe I'm blind to this, maybe I don't know everything that's going on. I know I don't. So tell me what you're experiencing and let's problem solve together to figure it out.

April Spilde: 54:41

Versus, okay, I hear what you said. Here's what we got to do, and I think that is such a key characteristic of a good leader is the ability to give the opportunity to have that shared conversation of let me hear what you think, let me hear what you're seeing and let's work together to get through this. That's one thing I wanted to highlight in that conversation, because I think that is a really good skill to have, but not something that's always just readily available. A lot of leaders think they're leading by taking command or taking control, and it's oftentimes no empowering your people. Bringing the strengths and skills of your people to the front and center, stepping aside so they can shine, is really a great way to be an impact player and impact leader amongst your folks.

Kurt Madden: 55:33

Yeah, and I think you've talked about that too, and even in the, you know, even the military, you think about it.

Kurt Madden: 55:38

I have never, I haven't been in the military, my father was, but I admired people who were. Because you know, you think about that and we talked about it earlier is that you don't want to develop followers because for some reason if you become a casualty they might be so lost. Everything really just kind of implodes versus. Now I've developed my people to be leaders. You know, again, I give you that piece If I go down. I know they're going to be able to.

Kurt Madden: 56:05

Okay, it's mission critical right Mission, critical mission man and then me, and I think we need to be there, just like Sonic said. So Sonic says, you know, eaters eat last. Yeah, leaders eat last. Yes, eaters eat last, so I think that's something that's really, really important as we look at you know being that impact player. So, All right, I'm handing it back to you.

April Spilde: 56:27

Yeah, love it, love it. Okay With this, I think the ability to understand if you are in that leadership position and you are casting a vision for your team or you're casting a vision for you stepping into being a triathlete it's so important to know how to set goals Not just setting goals, but setting smart goals, goals. So I do think this is a great leadership tip, in that the ability to have specific, measurable, actionable, relevant and time-bound goals are what can make or break. Um can make your ability to succeed that much greater, because you are very specific in how you're going to execute and what you need to do to get you to your finish line or get you to your next objective.

April Spilde: 57:18

And, um, I think within triathlon, it's inherent that you have to build smart goals because you have a race that you might have on your calendar. You have to reverse engineer backwards your schedule, your commitments. Um, how are you going to actually execute your training, your nutrition? Um, how are you going to actually execute your training, your nutrition? Um, hiring a coach like that it's just kind of inherently built. If you want to meet that finish line, you have to build these smart goals and I think having that ability in a leadership aspect. Um, again, just is another key tool that you can bring to your team to get after whatever objective you're going for, whatever priority or strategy that you need to get you to that next level.

Kurt Madden: 58:04

Yes, absolutely. And I think again, if it's kind of like, as you're talking, april, I'm just thinking I ask people, so what if we did a triathlon and there was just like no timing at all? Yeah, just like go swim back around. I mean, don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with that, but in a competition it would be a little bit strange because you're not, you know, kind of getting that feedback, feedback and it's not kind of like a smart goal. And again, your smart goal could be just.

Kurt Madden: 58:33

I'm going to finish this full distance ironman or certain times or your prep book and things like that. So I think, as leaders, if you're literally flying by the seat of your pants, chances are this is the missing piece. That really, with your team and building consensus and, I think, those around you, it makes it exciting trying to keep people accountable but at the same time, you're celebrating along the way.

Kurt Madden: 58:56

But I think you develop a real good cadence in doing that and again, it's you know, something that you're, you know, always striving to do. So I think what you touched on right there is just really, really huge.

April Spilde: 59:11

Yeah, I think it's the difference between knowing, okay, I want to go to Alaska versus I want to go to Homer Alaska and I want to go halibut fishing in June. You know what I mean? Yeah, so having that GPS, if you will, to get you to the exact point that you want to get to and when it's the difference maker between being kind of aimless or having a kind of opaque destination versus knowing exactly where you want to go and how to get there.

Kurt Madden: 59:37

Yeah, and I know I had an athlete in Kona. He was on a legacy program, so some of it was out of his control. And it's almost a smart goal, but he had to do 12 triathlons. Yes 12 triathlons to get to Kona and he did it and we had a debrief and he got really emotional. First time ever I've seen him get really emotional because he's kind of a real tough guy.

April Spilde: 59:56

Stoic yeah.

Kurt Madden: 59:57

Yeah, and just always I try to loosen him up a little bit, let's keep it light. But anyway, we just debriefed and he just got really emotional at the end he goes. Well, I'm going to take that to my grave. And I kind of told him. I said you know that was my mission. He goes, god, it's taken us six years. And I said, hey, it doesn't matter about time, we just stretched out the timeline a little bit longer for you, but no one will ever take that shirt away from you. I want you to hold on to that kit, put it on your gravestone, do whatever with it.

Kurt Madden: 1:00:28

And it's changed him just dramatically and he showed me videos and things that he did and it was really amazing. You know, at Trite did and it was really amazing with you know tried out. We had our legends there. He was so bashful that he he didn't know and how to even ask crowey, can I get a picture with you with to with mark allen? He was like a six-year-old kid looking up to these professional athletes and it was just so neat. So that was pretty special.

April Spilde: 1:00:51

Yeah, good stuff. All right, we're coming, uh, around the corner here with tip number nine. You ready, coach K?

Kurt Madden: 1:00:58

Tip number nine I think this is like a movie. It's like we've done the foreshadowing, we've got the setting, the characters. Now it's that rising action. So I'm going to kind of almost get us to the mountaintop here. This is really, as a leader, I have learned this so well and I experience it every single day. It is leveraging your EQ and I want you to hold on to those words Leverage your emotional intelligence. I know this, I've seen it and I try to just be very mindful of it. That your.

Kurt Madden: 1:01:30

EQ can really be leveraged or it can be a limiting factor as a leader. I know that for sure, that you can have great credentials, you can have great degrees, you can have X amount of years of experience. However, the difference right there, is going to be your emotional intelligence.

Kurt Madden: 1:01:46

So you need to kind of think about and I think it's amazing we talk about crosswalking and I look at triathlons it's amazing when you break down emotional intelligence and there's a few different definitions, but I think on a real high level, the first one is just self-awareness. As a leader, you need to have that self-awareness.

Kurt Madden: 1:02:05

When you're in the sport of triathlons and you're training, and in your athletic or in your actual competitions, you need to be self-aware at all times. That is a skill. That is a skill that takes time to develop. So that's going to be the first kind of pillar within the EQ area that we're going to look at. The other thing is self-regulation. A leader needs to self-regulate.

April Spilde: 1:02:31

Not that you're perfect but you need to know your emotions.

Kurt Madden: 1:02:35

You need to know your strengths. You need to know those stressors, the triggers. Yeah.

April Spilde: 1:02:40

You need to know all those things.

Kurt Madden: 1:02:42

You know, when maybe you're getting a little bit rambunctious and you're maybe over-motivated, you need to tone that down a little bit and temper that and align it to those people around you. So I think self-regulation just like in in our sport. It's just like uh, you know, I I've shared with guys. It's so funny when you coach them like I'm looking at your power on the bike, what happened here? It really spiked your power. He goes. Well, this girl went by me on the bike. I couldn't let that happen. I'm like oh, brother, you know we got, oh no, we got a little work to do here.

Kurt Madden: 1:03:12

See, that's eq right there, I haven't done my job as a coach. I don't care if it's a woman, I don't care if it's a dog or a male or whatever.

Kurt Madden: 1:03:20

We've got a plan, you've got to self regulate. Here's your ceiling on your power. You've got to stay right there. That wasn't the plan. We're not there to chase people. We're there to swim, bike and have a great run and have fun. So, self-regulation. I think again, as a leader, it is really really important to do that and again, work with your direct reports, work with those around you and I think if you're open to feedback, they're going to give you good reinforcing feedback. But sometimes it's that constructive feedback and just being brutally honest to tell you what you need to know, not what you want to hear, and there's a big difference there.

Kurt Madden: 1:03:56

When you develop that trust and that culture. People will tell you what you need to know and not what you want to hear, because some people they've only got like one ear open on that. That's all they want to hear.

Kurt Madden: 1:04:06

It's all the good stuff, you need to know reality. Self-regulation is key. I think the other thing, too, we talked about is just motivation. In our sport, you need to have a good level of motivation. As a leader, your motivation it's going to go up and down a little bit, but you've got to work on yourself or with your team or with a mentor, or get in a mastermind group to work on those skills, to say that you're motivated. And really, if you go back to the beginning of this podcast, we talked about your, why, when you know your, why your motivation?

Kurt Madden: 1:04:40

it should be just in that range. You know what I'm saying. It's your sweet spot, it's like your perceived effort. It's like, no, I'm between a three and a five. I'm right there, I'm not over the top, I'm not redlining, and then again I'm not to the point where I'm going to DNF. My motivation needs to be right there. So I think that's important. The next one is my biggest one, and I see this again and again. Again. It's called empathy and if you look at your EQ, the true masters that can do this, they are so skillful that they've got that EQ dialed in literally within two to three minutes. They know exactly where this is going to go. I know I was on a call just the other day with one of my athletes, the going to new zealand, and we've got a huge investment on time and money and resources and I'm five weeks out as a coach.

Kurt Madden: 1:05:22

I prepped, you know, for this meeting I went through my notes, I'm looking at her metrics, I'm like, hey, we're gonna really have a great 40 minute session within two minutes I noticed that she had a nice friend, a four-legged friend, next to her and she told me all about this dog that didn't have a home. Now she lost a friend after 34 years over the dog and really for 35 minutes. We did not talk about New Zealand and training for the world championship, we talked about the dog and maybe I should clarify I listened.

Kurt Madden: 1:05:52

I listened about everything she was going through and, as a a leader, you need to know when you need to use your empathy, because you know what just by seeking first to understand.

Kurt Madden: 1:06:06

it's a steve covey remark yeah my agenda was going to go a different direction, but you've got to queue in very quickly to know your audience. In the moment I can, like you talked about, adapt, I can pivot and adjust on this one. You know what Our relationship, our trust is important. So we went for 40 minutes. We talked for New Zealand just a couple of minutes at the end but she sent me a text 20 minutes after and said thank you so much. That meant the world to me as a leader, as a coach, as a person that's working with others. That was a judgment call. I think I made the right call in the moment. So, as a leader, know the importance and trying to just really take it all in, and also know that in those situations, probably the biggest thing that you can do is try to listen.

Kurt Madden: 1:06:54

About 80% of the time, Probably the biggest thing that you can do is try to listen about 80% of the time, make a few comments along the way, because, again, we have two ears and one mouth, and I've learned this too, even my relationship at home. Sometimes it's good for me to do one thing.

Kurt Madden: 1:07:08

Just listen, don't feel like I'm going to run out and fix something, because that's what you want to do with your heart, but with your head you've got to sit back. So empathy is key. And then I think, when we wrap that all up, when we look at the kind of the fifth component of eq, is your social skills and I think again. It's that ability that can be charismatic, be professional, be authentic.

Kurt Madden: 1:07:31

But you can smooth with people and I think that social awareness that we're all not going to be just like ourselves and there are going to be people that maybe we don't see the eye to eye on or core values.

Kurt Madden: 1:07:42

And you know you could really get combated very quickly because you are a leader and it could be on a flow chart, it could be anything, but you learn that you know what. You don't need to pull out your power card. Those social skills will get you far and I think it's a real compliment when people would say something like wow, how did you remain so calm? I would have blown a head gasket and you kind of whisper in their sight. Well, I was going to kind of blow a head gasket too, but you know what I knew in the moment? I had to remain very calm. And I think what it does it reassures people and develops trust.

Kurt Madden: 1:08:15

It inspires them to say wow, I want to be just like you said that was well handled Well it is, and I do it with dignity and class in those moments because you know, as we talk about EQ, when you don't have those good social skills, it can be catastrophic and many times in a leadership position, to be brutally honest, it can be a reflection on the entire organization. You're one misstep right there on not being socially aware, and I've learned too. On that note. I'll wrap that one up. If and when you make a mistake, I've always my rule in my previous life and education. Even now, if I've done something wrong in a meeting to really offend you, my rule is please get back to me within 24 hours. Don't harbor those feelings, because I'm not perfect.

Kurt Madden: 1:08:58

I missed step offs and I was like, oh, what just came out of my mouth? That was way, way off. I wish I could pull that back in. Or even with an email, it's like if you know that you're just going to boil over, do not hit send sit on that and the next morning it looks a little bit different.

Kurt Madden: 1:09:15

Yes, get poised, get positioned, treat people like you want to be treated, because that communication is key and we know that in this day and age, like we say, before you hit sense you have to think about if that's going to be on social media, that footprint, yep. So be real careful.

April Spilde: 1:09:32

It's a written document.

Kurt Madden: 1:09:36

Yeah, and even in our sport, I think that's one thing that I've learned is that you know your eq, people really respect that. It's all about about you, you know, or me, me, me. It's about really the whole sport and thinking of others and being grateful and mindful, and I think the pros do that very well. It's like in kona. You know patrick langer, he was there, he finished at 1 30 in the afternoon. He had he had that full, you know that full iron man for, like, breakfast or brunch. Yes, but he was out there at 11 o'clock at night getting people across the finish line.

Kurt Madden: 1:10:03

So I think those social skills right there and eq, that just says it right down love it I love it.

April Spilde: 1:10:10

When you were talking, I I was thinking about too, um, especially when you talked about empathy and having the ability to listen and know when to key into something that's super important to someone. There's a quote by Maya Angelou that she had said that I've learned that people will forget what you said. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel, and I think that is a great quote to capture how EQ is so important, because people will remember exactly when you tuned in and showed empathy and care and compassion in something that you know is a private space or is a place of hurt. I think that is what can separate someone from having the ability to really connect with someone and bring them, bring out their best self or bring them to another level of of care and connection that you might have missed if you weren't tuned in with your eq yeah, totally well, we are coming to the last tip and I know we've covered the gamut.

April Spilde: 1:11:17

We've definitely 10x'd Coach K, but this one is, I think, just kind of explains the entirety of what we've talked about and that is taking these tips and using them and leading by example Actually not saying but doing. And I think that when you are leveraging your EQ, when you're being an impact player, when you know how to set smart goals, when you show that you can embrace discomfort and move through challenges, you're truly leading by example. You're showing that you're putting your money where your mouth is, and I think when people can see that in you and then you can reflect that back in them and empower them to do the same, that's a hallmark of a good leader.

Kurt Madden: 1:12:04

Absolutely yeah, and I think it sounds so easy. But you know, it's always just being mindful that people are watching. It's kind of like being a parent.

Kurt Madden: 1:12:13

You know, I remember when I was my son was really young. It's like I was reading something called the newspaper and he was two years old. He had a newspaper. There was only one problem it was upside down and, like we say, the apples don't fall too far from the tree. So I think, really in a leadership position, that when you lead by example and you model those behaviors for those people around you, it's real, real, real important to know that. And I know that as I've worked with people in leadership positions, I had to ask myself before I judged I don't think I've done everything yet to help that person I need to do a little bit more.

Kurt Madden: 1:12:51

And you need to model excellence. You need to model integrity, model professionalism. Do a little role play.

April Spilde: 1:12:57

Humility yes.

Kurt Madden: 1:12:59

Shadow that person? I don't know, Six months later. Someone said how did you transform that person? Yeah, we talked about that. Invest in yourself first but also invest in those around you, so wow.

April Spilde: 1:13:12

What a fine star girl.

Kurt Madden: 1:13:14

Can I put on your medal?

April Spilde: 1:13:21

Yes, I'm sweating coach k that was firing on the synapses. For sure, it's like meeting you, yeah, yeah and uh and and really extracting some amazing stories, anecdotes, quotes, um yeah, I loved it. Thank you so much, thank you.

Kurt Madden: 1:13:40

For our listeners. I want you to continue to soak it up. Be that sponge, take it all in. Because April is on a mission and all you need to do is kind of hang with her a little bit and you're going to be much better as a leader. And I think again, as we say in Try it, trying out that we're better together and we love community. So again, you know it'll be great to continue to listen to your podcast, but I've got today. I'm Zachary Kruger.

April Spilde: 1:14:07

Thank you and an impact player.

Kurt Madden: 1:14:09

Thank you, thank you.